This may be the most grounded, the most clear-eyed look at where we need to go that you will hear in the current moment.
Sensible questions with informed, measured answers. She never weasels or rabbit holes, is always direct and gets to her point and answers the question. I feel like I learned more in this twenty minutes than I have from any talking head in the last ten years.
And, she took the time and trouble to go to Poland and Hungary because she wanted to learn how they did it and what happened next. Really worth your time, guys.